Phinella

Oh well, something pretty common then. Had clicking when turned head again today once or twice when on a 20 mile walk on my own from Canterbury to Dover. Long walks alone always one of my pleasures but am leading a group on this route in a few weeks time. The thought entered my mind - a SAH is a form of initiation. Then I reflected - too pretentious and fanciful and initiation into what? Some things you don't want to be initiated into - we can all think of other examples as well as the sequelae of which people in this forum are all too aware. Then I thought - better to describe a SAH as a hard teaching. I may elaborate later on if I can do so usefully. Or perhaps I picked this up from someone's post. Best wishes, Phinella

Hi All, Interesting to hear others' experiences. I certainly had no shunt. I am not too worried but certainly hope the clicking reduces in frequency over time - if nothing else it is slightly embarrassing as others can hear it! Best wishes with everything, Phinella

Penny and Kris, Thank you for your observations, Kris in particular, and apologies for the delay in acknowledging. Penny, I appreciate your warning and wouldn't blindly follow anyone's advice whatever their quals or lack of them. And I would not dream of pinning responsibility for any aches and pains etc onto the NASAH. The only reason I asked the question about neck clicking was because I had never had any such issues before the NASAH but have noticed the clicking frequently and indeed now pretty much daily since. And members of this forum seem far more knowledgeable than anyone else around on the wonderful world of NASAHs, be they qualified in whatever way or not. Kris, many thanks for your observations and I'm sorry you have so many clicking sounds in joints to put up with; I hope that as with everything else this gets better with time even if it is a fairly minor irritant. I just get the one sound when I turn my neck to the side or down; a sort of loud snap (audible to others). What you say bears out my surmise; something happened through my NASAH which has impeded the smooth operation of some muscular/nerve connections or has somehow caused gas to get trapped in my spine or thereabouts. I will try the type of exercises to which you refer in moderation. And probably see a physiotherapist and/or get some Alexander technique posture guidance - can't be bad in any case. As to where my bleed took place, it predominantly involved the basal cisterns, extending to the peri-medullary cistern and both sylvian fissures. I find the diagrams of the brain on the net a bit hard to follow and a bit yukky (never was keen on human physiology) but I think this is the mid-brain. Best wishes, Phinella

Hi All I wondered if anyone has got any tips on how to deal with clicking sounds in the neck. I get these pretty much one or twice daily when I turn my head to the right or sometimes when I move my head downwards. Not painful or disturbing as such. I have looked on the internet of course and the consensus seems to be that they are not harmful and that they are caused by gas bubbles and/or damage to the cartilage surrounding the vertebrae. Some standard physio type exercises are suggested on the lines of head rotation and turning. I seem to recall a post somewhere possibly by Kris about these sounds. I also recall some suggestion that physio might help as long as the physio concerned was knowledgeable about NASAH after-effects and there might be an issue about muscular forshortening. A year and four months on from my NASAH I would have thought all gas which got into my cerebro-spinal fluid with the blood would have dissipated but perhaps I am wrong. Any comments or ideas most gratefully received. I thought I was going to depart from this forum for good but I do find it very interesting so I keep reverting. Also an element of displacement activity from the stress of having to choose and organise another care home for my 90 year old mother as I don't want her to peg out where she is but have zilch support to sort things out as she is self-funded and has no one in the whole wide world apart from me to help (which incidentally I think contributed to stress leading to the NASAH - families eh who'd have them?). Oh well, back to the care home madness after I've had a run. Phinella

Hi Dan, I had a NASAH fifteen months ago. I was out of hospital in just under two weeks (would have been less but was over Xmas and the occupational therapist who had to pronounce on my ability to make a cup of tea for myself was on holiday). Was back at work on a phased basis after six weeks and full time after ten weeks. I felt fine as soon as I recovered consciousness about thirty six hours after the bleed having had a lumbar puncture to relieve pressure from build up of cerebro-spinal fluid blocked by bleed. Headaches were minimal. I had two angiograms about two weeks apart because although no aneurysm was detected my bleed was a Fisher Grade 2 i.e. quite a lot of blood. The angiograms were the worst things - I sympathise with the person who had a twisted catheter and then an unsuccessful attempted second angio. At my second angio I was completely alert etc hence very worried - my blood pressure shot right up and then plummetted back to normal as soon as it was over. But apart from that everything was OK - I had slight backache on the first time I walked outside the hospital (I was still an in-patient but needed to get out into the fresh air so they let me out). The backache then disappeared. I still get slightly tired late at night. But that's when one is supposed to be tired and as my bedtime tends to be round 12.30 (far too late I know) that is hardly surprising. Apart from that, I think I am the same person as I ever was and my lifestyle is similar with the difference that I have vowed that I will not take on so much work as to put my health in danger - especially as I have not had a raise for three years as a Government employee. When I quit my job for a better one I will march out with full honours of war rather than being stretchered out as happened when I collapsed at work with the NASAH. Like others who seem to have made a full or nearly full recovery I don't post often but I think it is important to provide a few words of support or information or something. NASAHs are such strange things. Let us hope we never have another encounter with them. Very best wishes for your continuing and successful recovery and for resuming your flying career as soon as you safely can. Phinella

Well, I have been warned off tellling someone to stay off ciggies, chocolates and anti Ds already (grovel grovel so sorry) because I am not medically qualified. Goodness me a little balance and sense of perspective would be appreciated. Exhortations to keep on killing yourselves with baccy and sweets are better? Anti Ds - OK maybe some people need them and big pharma loves them so I will button my lip. But I digress and will probably be thrown out for being a menace to the NASAH community anyway. But seriously shipmates, I do feel the need to make a few comments to Danny and Wade about exercise, having started this thread. Take no heed of course as I must not provide advice! But I think (insert appropriate disclaimers) you should take as much exercise as feels right. I think people are more likely to under rather than over exercise. I run (very slowly) same as before the NASAH fifteen months ago, go to the gym for general workouts, ski, hill-walk, climb at altitude, go for long distance walks and generally do whatever the hell I want and feel as good (or as bad) as I ever did. If you don't feel up to your old regime it seems sensible to try something different or less strenuous but better to do anything rather than nothing I would think as long as it does not lay you low completely. If you do feel unduly tired or lacking stamina when or after engaging in exercise, again reason would indicate that it is best to wait until energy levels and general well-being improves and then gradually to build up to more strenuous activities if everything goes well. Simply persevering at whatever seems an appropriately achievable level has surely got to be worthwhile and likely to contribute to as full and early a recovery as possible. Very best wishes Phinella

Is all I can say, Shellie, and if you disagree or feel you cannot then I don't know what to say other than take a break, pick yourself up and try again. I guess I fall into the "fully recovered" category having had a NASAH nearly fifteen months ago and having been back at work full-time plus Christ knows how much unpaid overtime since (high stress environment, public sector cuts, over-conscientious but NOT cruising for another bruising so seriously thinking about pulling plug on job/career and concentrating on what I love -writing, historical research, climbing and travel). My advice - throw away the chocolates, the anti Ds and the ciggies, get down the gym, out of the city, let others do their share, make time for personal interests, don't bear grudges, roll with the punches and fight for all you are worth. Live life day by day but have some nice things planned to look forward to and some longer term goals. We are all food for worms but let's ensure we are standing and fighting when they come for us. And do the right thing however hard it is. We are the chosen ones (well some of them; others are chosen for other reasons). We have our own missions if we can but find them and while there is no power that is going to save us we can save ourselves and others and if we die trying we can do no better. The world is a bad place at times but if people are good we can help to spiritualise the earth and pass the baton on to our successors while we go on to the next challenge (I like to envisage some sort of celestial appraisal meeting where we get asked for our feedback and what we would like to do for our next assignment - have obviously been in the management game way too long). What has the above got to do with a NASAH? Precious little probably. I was very fortunate in that my symptoms (headache, tinnitus) were never very bad and two weeks after the NASAH I felt fine. Only remnant of which I am aware is a strange clicking noise sometimes if I turn my head. And I do get tired round 11 pm but I suppose that should be bed-time though it is too early for me so I admit I just have a nap and then get going again round midnight for an hour or two. I am trying to and will stop this however as it is a bad pattern, albeit that I am still so tired that I usually have no problem getting to sleep properly. If there is anything I can attribute a good recovery too it is exercise - when still in hospital I insisted on being allowed out for walks and now do as much as I ever did (subject to the demands of the toad called work) by way of walking, work-outs, climbing (only up to 15,000 ft so far but will go higher) and ski-ing. And I deliberately try not to worry. I have a 90 year old mother whom I have to visit weekly in her care home and it is a right old pain for both of us though thankfully she does not have dementia. I try to get the balance between doing my duty by her (which I do) and not worrying about her when I am leading my life - it is painful and grief will follow when she dies so I am not going to pre-empt it now. I look on what I have to do for her as another project which has to be fitted into the schedule/another karmic debt which I have to pay off. All a bit of a random ramble to take or leave. But I really hope things do improve both physically and mentally - I'm sure they will. And please do help yourself by stopping doing things that are manifestly harmful. Maybe put some things that are definitely beneficial in their place to provide rewards and incentives. Use your self-knowledge and self-discipline to get results. Some things are hard and unpleasant and still more so if you feel unwell but they don't improve by being left if they possibly can be tackled. Best wishes Phinella PS And just to say I am shortly going to leave this forum for a bit so please don't address a reply directly to me as it may well go unread. Hope all things improve for everyone.

Hi Teechur and Win, Two half marathons back to back is really something, Teechur. I am sorry you are still having bad headaches and that that is impeding your ambitions but sounds like you are really achieving a lot and I am sure you will achieve more and more personally as well as professionally. 50 k - wow - sounds mega long. I am running a bit though not enough due to time pressures and feel as good as I ever did apart from tiredness late at night. But I was getting tired in the evening before the NASAH hit so may be just middle age. I grump and groan about my tough job and having to sort out a care home for my mother etc but I am pretty lucky I know - indeed very lucky. And I could quit the job any time - I wouldn't starve. We'll see what happens this year......time to be bold when thoughts are clarified or even if they are not. No, I wasn't in King's at the same time as you, Win. I was there in Dec 2011. They know their stuff I think - at least I was quite impressed. Best wishes and hope all goes as well as it can do for everyone - the night is darkest before the dawn as they say. Phinella

Very best of luck for the 15th. I'm sure you'll make it and look forward to hearing about it!

Yes, saw you had made the half marathon from another post, Teechur. I'm sure you'll make a full marathon soon - sooner than me at least. A half is not a bad achievement by any standards; the most I've ever done though I do have aspirations.......But you'll get there first and much faster! Best wishes to all, Phinella

Hi Teechur, I hope your marathon went well - that sounds a fantastic achievement. Hope your headaches get progressively better and that your recovery continues to proceed well in every way. Just thought two things. First, an SAH is a teaching. It is an important teaching but I don't know what it means other than that it could take the rest of one's life to puzzle out and that paradoxically like all life's challenges we have somehow chosen to receive it. That sounds irrational and unscientific but I do think there is karma to be worked out and this is one way of doing it. Just hope we don't get any further bad karma in consequence as not necessarily going to bring out the best in people! Second, we have to look forward not back. Bad things happen all the time - karma, a bad universe, who knows, and there is a box in the ground for all of us humans in the not too distant future (years rush by like mountain streams so a lifetime is soon over however long it is). Maybe just best keep a wary eye on everything and see behind appearances. But we have got to run our marathons, climb our hills and face the fates. Never give up and never give in. On life, on death, cast a cold eye; horseman, pass by (WB Yeats' epitaph). Best wishes to one and all and apologies for some rather "B" movie standard musings. Phinella

Many thanks for your replies. I must say, Kris, that I have found your posts generally very enlightening both in terms of scientific content and of wise observations and I really hope your own recovery continues to progress and that you find a way of living and being that is as good and rewarding and symptom-free as as it can be. The idea of the body's gong-like sounds is interesting. I have always been into spiritual development in a sort of a way - not regular meditation though have dabbled since age 21 but get too impatient or distracted to persist. Maybe I should take it up properly. I have thought that it would be good to get the insights of a good alternative healing practitioner into the causes of NASAHs but it would be too much to expect answers when the conventional medical world shrugs its shoulders. I did get some plant extracts from a herbalist which at least had no side effects! Anyway I think my NASAH had multiple causes - possibly some weakness in neck veins which had built up over years, cholesterol levels on the high side quite possibly due to stress as much as diet if not more so, stress due to unhappiness in life, cruel hours at work, lack of sleep, stress due to having had to put my mother into a care home and sell her flat without any help from a single soul (over the year before the NASAH happened), menopause (maybe - I think there may be a link with reducing hormone levels - one good thing is that I really do not give a damn how bad the symptoms may be as long as I don't have another brain bleed). Finally, throw in some bad karma of the sort we all build up if you believe in such things and perhaps some badly aspected planets and a malicious demigod or two saying "OK let's mess with this woman today" and away you go (I am being deliberately fanciful in raising these last possibilities, but who knows). Interesting too that a majority of the people posting on the forum are women - I read somewhere that there is a preponderance of women amongst people who have had SAHs and middle age say 45 plus seems to be the most dangerous time. Though there are younger people affected too obviously, and whatever your personal characteristics, it's a tough challenge.

Hi NASAH people, In the words of the song, please allow me to introduce myself. I'm a 54 year old otherwise fit and healthy and not overweight female. My NASAH was nine months ago to the day on 16 Dec 2011. Was feeling fine, having lunch with a friend at work and then suddenly became aware of two successive electric shock like sensations in my neck. Then nothing - for half an hour or so. Back at my desk I was suddenly conscious of excruciating pain and the rest is pretty hazy until I recovered consciousness properly in the high dependency unit in the neurological ward in King's College Hospital South London about 30 hours later. I had had a Fisher Grade 2 perimesencephalic NASAH as disclosed by a CT scan and a lumbar puncture as I had early hydrocephalus and was apparently very confused (that figures, as I can't remember anything except screaming when I had the lumber puncture, but it seemed like someone else was screaming i.e. I was so out of it that I didn't fully register the pain). This seemed to do the trick as I remember snapping back into consciousness, and thank the gods I felt pretty well OK straight away although I was kept on drugs and a drip for a few days and had an angio which disclosed nothing. As it was just before Xmas and despite feeling OK I was not too happy going home alone (no kids, no partner, no siblings, mother in a care home, few friends, basically a sad loner) I was transferred to a stroke unit in St Thomas's Hospital to free up the bed. That was seriously depressing and I got out as soon as I could when a full complement of staff returned after Xmas and the occupational therapist pronounced me fit to make myself a cup of tea. I had another angio a week or so after discharge and again nothing showed up. I had an MRI scan three weeks after that - again nothing. I was off work for six weeks in all and then returned on a short working day/phased return basis in February for a month before going back to full time work in March. How do I feel? Pretty well OK. As with many others who have posted, the medical information was pretty well zilch and after my modest researches online I felt I knew more than my GP. I insisted on an appointment with a consultant and got one eventually but that really did not tell me anything much either other than that the risk of recurrence was pretty well back to the risk for the general population which is I believe one in 100,000. I have signed up to an eight week set of sessions on brain injury run by King's College Hospital with the charity Headway just to get some more information but don't think I will bother with a parallel set of sessions on coping with brain injury because I think I am coping reasonably well and don't have any obvious deficiencies or problems fingers crossed. Of course I feel angry, upset and anxious about all this. But to be honest, I have always felt that bad things could jump at you out of nowhere so I don't feel I have been unduly picked on by the evil powers of the universe. I have always had a pretty downbeat view of life as I say so I have not felt more depressed than I ever did. Good friends, better people than me, have been killed climbing or died of untimely deaths from cancer for example so yes, **** happens. If it is said I am unlucky that the roulette wheel pointed at me, it can equally be said that I am lucky to have got away without much apparent ill-effect. I am a pretty determined individual and one thing I do remember when the NASAH hit is trying to get up onto my feet (I had collapsed on the floor) saying that I was very resilient. And one of my previous and long abiding images of myself was as someone who would, if hit on the head with a hammer, crawl along and keep crawling if needed rather than give in; somewhat prescient as it turned out. So I would say to everyone, never give up and never give in and keep on trying to find out why this has happened while at the same time moving on and doing as much as you can with the rest of your lives. And if you can reduce vascular risk factors, do - my cholesterol levels are quite high but I'll be damned if I will take statins (I don't do drugs of any sort). So I guess it is time for that healthier diet and trying to reduce stress as I understand that stress can raise cholesterol levels as well as dietary factors. I might also explore some types of alternative therapy as well such as perhaps osteopathy as I do get some funny clicking sounds in my neck sometimes now. I take as much exercise as I have time to. Can't say I have had a fundamental re-think of my life - or rather I have been trying to do that for about thirty years, so nothing new there. Maybe time to do more of what I really like i.e. non fiction research and writing and travel. If nothing else, the NASAH brings it home to you that life is short and the big sleep is long. I hope everyone reading this (and everyone else on the forum indeed) manages to get through what is a pretty horrible experience on any analysis with the minimum of pain and worry, that your recoveries progress well and that you manage to get at least some of the support and help you need. Demand it! I'm not really an internet junkie; I have been reading posts on this forum from time to time since I discovered it some months back and it is by far the best source both of first person accounts and of detailed information about all aspects of SAHs which I've found. So keep up the good work! I thought I would post just in case my experience is of interest to anyone else, particularly anyone who has had a NASAH recently and wonders what the hell is going on. I have no idea, but you just have to keep going and not let this take over your life. Very best wishes to everyone. Phinella