URGENT: Ginkgo supplement

[Annie]

Hi All,

I need for you to know that I went to an acupuncturist/ herbalist yesterday. While she was making a list of herbs for me to consider for various symptoms, she stressed that I need to research each one to see if there are blood thinning properties....

She also said that GINKO IS A BLOOD THINNER and probably shouldn't be used by anyone who has suffered a hemorrhage. So, please consider this and check with your docs, ok???

Love you all,

Annie

[Karen]

Hi Annie,

Thanks for that info. I also read that yesterday evening, as I've have a book on natural alternative medicines etc.....I haven't taken any more tabs as I bruise easily anyway and often get broken blood vessels in my fingers.....but will delete the postings re: ginkgo on the site.

Would anybody who takes this supplement, please check with their Doctor as Annie has suggested, before they continue with its use. It is a blood thinner and should not be used if you've had a haemorrhage.

Love K x

[Skippy]

Sorry guys I didn't realise. It certainly hadn't said anything in the stuff I'd read about it. A thousand apologies.

Sami xx

[Karen]

Hi Sami,

No need to apologise .... I also didn't see any warnings on the site .... I've got an old natural alternative medicine book and I was just checking to see if it might interfere with my Beta Blockers .... that's were I saw that it was a blood thinner........there were no warnings however, on the actual packaging of the supplement.....which seems to be the norm with natural alternatives.

Honestly, don't worry .... I've deleted the postings on it ..... so all is well!

Hope that everything is okay with you and please don't worry!!

Love and hugs,

Karen x

[Skippy]

Hi

Thanks for your kind words but I feel really bad. Its been working really well for me and I don't know if thats because I suffered an anuerysm induced SAH but then surely it would thin the blood around the coils. I used to take this stuff before and it really helped me regain energy etc so i didn't think anything of it when Paul said he was putting it in my drink. Oh well will have to resort to a pint or two of an evening to help me relax from now on.

Again guys really sorry - it could have hurt someone

Catch you soon

Sami xxx

[Karen]

Hi Sami,

Aah bless you, you're a good girl, jeez, don't worry!....don't feel bad about it, honest.....it's not your fault......This batty lady is still alive and kicking!!

Actually, I'm feeling loads better this afternoon than I did yesterday......so it hasn't done anything detrimental!! (I actually remembered to pick up the notebook today!)

You take care and enjoy your pint!

Love and hugs,

K xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Annie]

Sami!!! Nooooo.... don't feel bad!!! We are all here to help each other!!! That's what this site is all about. I was not scolding anyone. There, there. Gooood girl.

Now I have to figure out how I'm going to research the thinning properties of the other herbs and natural remedies if the sites don't tell you! Karen, I might ask you to look up a few for me in your book.

I am feeling a little bit hopeful about pursuing some alternative medicine remedies for my life. It turns out there are many good resources right here in my back yard. My current (western) doc seems to just shrug off any worries I have about the anti depressants for example. I'm going to try to go off of them slowly and use some natural methods instead. I got a referral yesterday for a great wholistic/ md, so I'm marching on with that. By the way, my acupuncturist is from England. Sure seems like you folks have the jump on alternative therapies!!

Love,

A

[Karen]

Hi Annie,

The book I have is called "The Pharmacy Guide to Herbal Remedies" written by Jan de Vries, my edition was published in 2001 ..... but it's very good.... I bought it after seeing a series on the tv and this guy (the author) seemed to be working miracles with his patients using herbal remedies, he seemed to be able to just look at a patient and tell what their problem was......I was having quite a few migraines at the time....but looking back, perhaps it was a lead up to my warning bleed a couple of years later!....who know's...they say that migraine and SAH isn't related but I still have my doubts.

The book gives you dosage info, restrictions, contra-indications, adverse reactions, application, restrictions etc. I've found it quite useful over the years as a reference to natural alternatives.

Lots of love K xxxx

[Skippy]

Hi Annie

I know you weren't scolding me. I guess I'm kind of disappointed too. I'd found this stuff that was making me feel better about things and it turns out I shouldn't be taking it - kind of like having a cigarette(jeez could I do with one right now). Feel like I've taken 15 steps back after taking 10 forward.

I'm just glad you asked about it Annie otherwise we'd be non the wiser and would have carried on taking it

Love me

xxxx

[Annie]

Yes, Sami, I was disappointed by fish oil too. I was taking it for my joints and then was told it's a blood thinner too. :?

[Skippy]

Hi

I contacted a herbalist at T3 Therapy and asked about the Gingko Leaf. She said so long as I wasn't taking anything else to thin the blood such as Warfrin or Aspirin then the Gingko should be OK. I've left a message with my Doc to see if he can shed any light on the situation.

Hope everyone had a good weekend.

Love Sami xx

[Karen]

Hi Sami,

It will be interesting to see what your Doc comes back with. I'm due to see mine next Monday....so will also ask his opinion. It's a bit of a minefield with meds, especially with drugs interacting with other meds that you're taking.

Love K x

[Skippy]

Hi Karen

Not heard anything from the Doc yet but am going to the pharmacist at lunch.

I'm not taking any other meds - apart from paracetamol when the head aches get too much - the thing that makes me think is that aspirin are 75mg and when Paul had his heart attack he had to take two in the morning and two at night as well as his Warfrin - the Ginko is only 2ml a day and has 500mg of the dried herb per 1ml - I don't how strong the blood thining agent is in Ginkgo so need to find that out too. This woman also suggested St John's Wort as this supposedly does a similar thing - the only draw back is that I'll know I'm taking it and Paul wasn't telling me when I was having the ginkgo so sometimes it was a placebo affect.

Will let you know when I get back from lunch

Love Sami xx

[Karen]

Hi Sami,

I was going to take St.John's Wort a few years back when I was feeling a bit low.....but, it apparently can interact with the birth control pill so I decided not to take the risk!! I'm still on the pill, mainly due to always having had heavy periods and a history of ovarian cysts.

It's so difficult to know what is or isn't safe to take.....have you thought about asking the Doc for something for anxiety? I'm on a low dosage beta blocker, primarily for anxiety and also for heart palpitations. It also keeps the blood pressure lower. From what I can see on the drug usage, it's also used for migraine headaches, which suits me as well, as haven't had any migraines since taking it regularly.

Apart from the Beta Blockers and painkillers for headaches, all I take is a Vitamin B supplement, which is supposedly good for mental health!

It will be interesting to know how much of the blood thinning agent is actually in the dose that you're taking. I know what you mean about the placebo affect though!

Perhaps somebody in the medical profession should draw up a list for us SAH'ers of what over the counter meds are/aren't safe!

Catch you later,

Love k xx

[Skippy]

Hi Karen

To be honest I don't get too anxious anymore. Since I watched the coiling video (thanks Keith) I realise that what they did in there was pretty damn amazing. My issues are all emotional and the Ginkgo was helping me deal with things. I'm wondering whether having an anuerysm cause the SAH is different to the sub group that some of the others are in and therefore safe for me/you to take as we knew the cause and the bleed has effectively been blocked by coiling and then the blood clotting around the coil. As no blood is able to get into the anuerysms due to this then theoretically the clot cannot be thinned by the Ginkgo. Like I said, once I get answers I'll let you know.

Thanks

Love Sami xx

[Karen]

Hiya,

I too have thought about that one as well re:coiling and clotting......but have also wondered whether the clotting may disperse due to the blood thinner?? I haven't really got a clue....I might e-mail the support nurses at Southampton Neuro when I've got a few minutes to ask them....also if they have any lists of over the counter medicines that shouldn't be taken, including herbal remedies.

Love K x

[Skippy]

Hya

A list of can's and can'ts would be a great help for all of I think. its just another annoying thing to add to the list of post SAH changes. There wasn't anything I couldn't take or do before this and now i find i don't even know if i should be taking the herbal remedies that I used to take for lethargy etc.

Saturday was another really bad day for me and I could not for love nor money drag myself out of the depression that I was in. I know a lot of it was to do with going out on Friday night and not drinking enough water but pre SAH the hangover was just a hangover and a decent breakfast and couple of paras later I was fine - now I find the hangover is more a depression and I can't get out of it - I was still affected by it yesterday.

I feel like I'll never get over this emotionally and this is going to dominate the rest of my life and that in itself gets me down. Vicious circle or what!!!

Speak later

Sami xx

[Karen]

Hi Sami,

I understand completely from where you're coming from....it's really hard to accept the changes that have happened and that in itself can be pretty tough. It does get slightly better with the passing of time, I think that you probably just get used to living with it more than for any other reason.

About six months after my SAH, I was angry with the whole damned thing...angry especially with my treatment from the GP before my SAH happened......angry about my eyesight....if he had sent me to hospital earlier etc. I probably wouldn't have had the damage to my sight. Not sure whether anybody else has experienced this angry stage....but after my initial jubilation of being lucky to be alive, I was ****** well angry that my life had changed beyond recognition.

I did have to snap myself out of it, as I thought that I could self-destruct! I don't quite know what happened...but I just got to a point where I knew that feeling like this, wasn't going to alter what had happened or what was happening presently to me. It certainly wasn't anything spiritual or weird and wonderful ... I just got fed up with my angry self. I was probably at this point, when I first joined the Southamton MB.

It does get easier emotionally and I'm only now beginning to feel more "comfortable" with who I am now. However, I still don't accept that I'm not going to progress any further ..... time has proven that even though my recovery has been at a snails pace, looking back I can now see the changes......but I've now had the luxury of time to be able to see that.

You will get stronger Sami ..... just don't let "it" beat you .... you've done wonderfully well, so you should be proud and praise yourself.

You've offered lots of good positive advice to others using this board and your postings are always honest ones and your character shines through.

Must go, have a bathroom to clean and a daughter to pick up from a friends ..... I can't believe that half term is already here! Having a bad short term memory has its advantages!

Catch you later,

Love K x

[Skippy]

Hi Karen

I'm now crying for another reason - thank you for yur vry kind words and spot on diagnosis. I'm lucky not to have lost any friends through this - if anything I'm closer to them. I do get angry even now - I shout at myself when I'm down and yell at 'it' because of what its done to me. The hardest thing for me is not understanding why its making me feel down - I know that its a huge, dangerous and scary experience but I'm not the sort of person that gets upset easily and now I seem to be. I'm angry that I've been 'allowed' to keep my sense of humur and my quick wit yet I'm no longer in control of my emotions and reactions.

I try to tell myself when I'm down that I will get through this and come out the other side but I just get so damn tired of fighting sometimes. I hate the fact that when I'm down it affects Paul and Siobhan and I try to be strong for them too (like the old me would be) but I just sometimes feel like giving in.

Have asked the pharmacist re Ginkgo and its a no go not just because of the blood thinner but because it also stimulates the blood flow to the extremities including the brain and as we need to keep bloodpressure and flow normal then, no don't take it. From the emotional side of things I've been given the all clear to take St Johns Wort but only because I'm not taking any other meds - this is purely and emotional supplement and has no blood thinning qualities to it or stimulants. But I must emphasise that I can only take it as I'm not taking ANY other medication.

I'll post regularly to keep you updated with the progress - i've got it in tincture format again so Paul can dose me up without me knowing - that way I won't know when I'm having it and when I'm not so I won't be relying on it. I feel ok today so am going to leave it until I have another bad day and see if it makes a difference.

Catch you all later

Love Sami xx

[AndyH]

Hi Sammi,

I may have already asked this but how long is it since your SAH? Heather is 18 months into it and is now having more good days than bad. It has been long and we have struggled. Sometimes it has felt like there will be no end but now the light is beginning to shine and I keep glimpsing it at the end of our tunnel.

I keep a written record of the ups and downs, sort of like a graph. Its good and keeps me focused on the ups. Sometimes feels like there are only downs but when I check my chart I see that there are ups too and more of them.

The light is still shining no matter how dark your days seem. Sometimes the clouds obscure the sun and it feels cold but, the sun is still shining and if you keep looking up you will see the truth in it.

The sun is still shining we are all still here.

Take care girl.

Andy H

[Karen]

Hi Sami,

Well, good luck with the St.John's Wort and hope that it helps you out!

I think that the anger stems from not feeling in control of your life any more....so it's good to release it and get rid of the adrenaline that's pumping around your body. I think that my anxiety problem has stemmed from not always releasing the anger in the early stages and sometimes bottling it up. You could say that I've learnt the hard way!!

Well, this afternoon I did my longest drive since the SAH.....taxi service to my daughter and friend...I was driving for about 3/4 hour........it's worn me out.....sounds ridiculous, I know, but it was so busy out and pouring with rain, my brain cells were in overdrive. Got back home and felt like collapsing in a heap! Still, I did it and again, it's another small step forward.

Anyway, crashed out on the settee, I'm not going anywhere this evening!

Catch you tomorrow,

Love Kx

[Skippy]

Hi Guys

Andy, I'm only 8 weeks post SAH but I'm struggling to come to terms with how this has changed me emotionally. I've been through some really tough times in the past and have always managed to cope and control how things made me feel but with this it kind of creeps up on me from no where. One minute I'm fine and the next I'm a wreck. I know that I have to be patient and ride the storms when the hit and as I've not been affected physically by this I know I'm extremely lucky considering, but I'm a very impatient person and that trait seems to have stayed with me.

I'm also lucky to have a very supportive husband, just like Heather , and very good family and friends that help me when I'm down. Without all these guys around me and you wonderful people on here, I don't think I'd cope as well as I do.

I took the St Johns Wort yesterday afternoon and it seemed to lift me but again that might just be a psychosymatic thing - only time will tell.

Well off to start some work now, catch you all later.

Sami xxxx

[Louise]

Hi there

Read your post’s yesterday but was too knackered to reply.

Karen, I couldn’t agree more with your reply to Sami, it took me a long, long time to come to terms with what had happened to me & like you said mine wasn’t spiritual either I just got to the point where I got fed up fighting against it, it was part of me now it who I am, & that was the time when I moved on.

My surgeon Brad had saved my life not once but twice how could I let him down by putting myself into a hole that I couldn’t get out off.

There still even now are bad days, days when I think why? Why me? But they don’t last more than a day or two.

Sami you just have to be positive, strong I think just listening to your posts you have that. Everyone is different you have already achieved so much by surviving there are so many who don’t.

Well the ramblers rambled enough I think.

Take care

Louise.xx

[Karen]

Hi Louise,

Did you overdo things at the weekend? It was this weekend wasn't it, that you were doing the bedroom?

Well, hopefully you rested up yesterday and you're okay...

Just about to do my online grocery shop....will catch you later,

Love K x

[Annie]

You are all an inspiration to me. Sometimes as a nonA SAH I feel like I don't even have the right to feel bad.

I think Karen's point about fighting it is good too. It sure seems like I was just getting to the point where I could accept the new me happily, when I got WHAM hit with menopausal symptoms. Now I'm a complete mess and also all confused about meds and supplements etc. Yesterday was one of my worst days so far emotionally. I am trying hard to watch for those little unexpected gifts of joy every day. This morning it was my dog, Brody. He is arthritic and doesn't get up on the couch any more to cuddle me or get in bed with me any more. He is on glucosomine for joints and it seems to be helping him. I sat down with my coffee on the couch this morning and he jumped right up there. We had a nice long cuddle and back scratch. )