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small untreated second anni


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Hi

My large aneurysm burst in Nov 07 and was coiled. They discovered a second small aneurysm at that time but said it was too small to treat - it's 2mm - as they didn't have coils small enough to treat it. I had a follow up MRI recently and saw the consultant yesterday who said that the second anni has stayed the same size, but they now have smaller coils so it would be treatable. However he said that treating a small aneurysm is more dangerous than treating a larger one and particularly where this one is situated.

The statistics he quoted me were 1 in 200 chance of it bursting if left untreated and if I had the op, a 6-10% chance of it resulting in my having a stroke or death during the op. Apparently if an artery bursts where there is just a small anni, it is more likely to cause a stroke (I took it he meant ischaemic stroke but maybe not) as well as a bleed.

Anyway, I've decided to do nothing and see what happens. I will be scanned again in 2 years time. I was just wondering if anyone else has been in this situation? It was one of those situations where the consultant seemed to hint that I would be better to do nothing but didn't seem to want to commit to advising me directly.

Any thoughts on this?

Warm wishes

Anne

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Hi Anne,

I have every sympathy with you on this one as I am in a similar situation, ie a small unruptured annie plus a ruptured one a year later than you (Nov, two thousand and eight - keep getting a smiley using numbers!!). I can only remember being told it was too small to operate on - not that they didn't have small enough coils.

I am not even sure what size mine is or whether it is in an operable position, so it is a constant worry. I am apparently going to be written to by my Consultant after my next MRI scan in August, so I will know more then. Certainly if I was in your situation, I think I would be leaving it alone although it is not a nice dilema to be in anyway and the hard bit is that you have to make that decision. I'm not a statistic fan or expert, but those odds (1/200) sound reasonable to me. I am not looking forward to being faced with what could be a similar descision in the future but guess I will be doing!

Take care,

Sarah

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Hi Anne

I think you've made the best decision for you and weighing up the pros and cons. I have a 2mm anni too situated right next to my burst anni. However, I was lucky enough that they coiled them both at the same time. I don't know what I'd decide if I was in your situation, I suppose it would depend on the possible severity of the bleed/stroke/TIA against the odds of complications of surgery.

I'm sure that in two years time when you have your next scan it'll be the same as it is now.

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i also have a 2 annies the one that burst and an unbust one of 2mm i feel that if i was given the option (which i havent ) i would have it coiled but then you will always hear 2 sides of a story and where mine is located it is not picked up easliy on scans they didnt locate the 5mm(burst) one on any scans when it burst think i had 6 different scans and it was ony picked up on the aniogram. Even on my last MRI they can only pick up the 5mm one now as it is coiled but where unable to locate the smaller one which means anniograms everytime they want to check it out as im only 26 im thinking this is a lot of anniograms (which also carry risks)

Take Care Donna

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Hi Anne,

I had 2 aneurysms – one ruptured (~ 4.5 mm) and one unruptured (~2.5 mm). I wanted coiling but had to have clipping because of the shape of my ruptured aneurysm. My neurosurgeon recommended that I get the unruptured aneurysm treated (clipped) as well. I agreed because I didn’t want an untreated aneurysm and my mother would have “forced” me to get it treated. In hindsight, if I didn’t experience a ruptured aneurysm, I probably would have had my unruptured aneurysm monitored.

It is good that you have weighed the pros and cons. Best of luck in making a decision that you’re comfortable with.

Take care,

Grace

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Hi

Thanks for your comments. Yes I was more relaxed about it all when I wasn't given the option of having treatment. Now that I have the option and have to make a decision, it's on my mind a lot more.

I think I will wait and see. If it grows bigger it will be apparently easier to treat with less risks.

Also things seem to be moving fast in this area of surgery so maybe in a couple of years' time, things might be a bit less risky, who knows.

Warm wishes

Anne xxx

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  • 4 months later...
Hi

Thanks for your comments. Yes I was more relaxed about it all when I wasn't given the option of having treatment. Now that I have the option and have to make a decision, it's on my mind a lot more.

I think I will wait and see. If it grows bigger it will be apparently easier to treat with less risks.

Also things seem to be moving fast in this area of surgery so maybe in a couple of years' time, things might be a bit less risky, who knows.

Warm wishes

Anne xxx

Dear All,

I found this stream really interesting as I have an untreated anni that is also 2mm but I wasn't actually given the option of having it coiled. I was told it was too small to treat and too risky.

No matter how much I try and ignore it, it does worry me that there is something potentially growing again in my brain as I had such a terrible time during & after my SAH.

I'm due for my annual CT scan next month so I'll see what they now advise.

We should compile a list of who is offered what treatment in different parts of the country! :crazy:

Hope you are well,

Leonie

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Hi Leonie,

Good luck with your CT scan next month .... I still have "unfinished business" in my brain and am due to be scanned in 2015. It still worries me too and it's always niggling at me .... but am realising that living life as well as I can, is the key ... but, yes it is still a lurking thought and would be easier to move on, if you're given the all clear....

It would certainly be interesting to see who is offered what, in different parts of the country ...

Keep well and let us know how you get on ... xx

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Hi Leonie

My untreated anni is only 3mm and I was given the option to have it coiled which I am having done next week on 31st. I'm going into the Walton Centre in Liverpool under Mr Javadpour - they were all brilliant when I had my SAH so although I am very nervous I know I'm in good hands. Good Luck next month and I'll let you know how I get on.

Jan x

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Hi

Leonie - I'll be interested to hear if you are offered the option of coiling for your 2mm one. It's only quite recently that the new smaller coils have become available. I hadn't really thought before (probably naively) that an op on an aneurysm would be offered in some parts of the country and not in others. I know it happens with drugs and aftercare services.

Jan - hope our op goes well. If my surgeon had been more encouraging, I would have had my little unburst one coiled as well but he seemed quite reluctant so I've not gone ahead, for now at least.

Warm wishes

Anne x

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  • 5 months later...

Hi, I am new to this site, but know exactly how you are feeling. I have a small untreated annie which was found after SAH burst annie in February, I had to go for a MRI scan in August and have just got the results that it is unchanged. However I made up my mind before going to see the Surgeon that I needed to get this sorted. My surgeon is very good and has said he will coil this for me, as my recovery was so good the last time. I am scared of course I have to discuss this with him on the 13th December but there really was never any doubt in my mind, I have found my stress and nervousness living with an untreated aneurysm has made life very difficult over the last ten months and I just want to feel confident that this will not burst in the future. :-)

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Hi Jilly, you've made a very brave decision. I know how difficult it must've been for you. I had a second op 3 months after my SAH to coil a 3rd small anni as, like you, I couldn't get the worry & fear of it bursting into perspective. I'm very glad now that I went ahead with it. Waking up after that op was completely different to waking up after the emergency op. I was absolutely fine & couldn't wait to go home (which I did the next day). Best wishes for your op and I hope it goes as smoothly for you as it did for me.

Michelle

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  • 1 month later...

I have a 3mm annie which is being operated on in March, right from the very beginning I knew that I would opt for the operation as my stress levels and anxiety of living with it and the potential it might burst like my first annie is far worse. I saw my surgeon in November and I was asked what I wanted to do and when I said I want to go ahead the surgeon said I am really glad you chose that option, so I am not sure if he could have made that decision for me he would have opted to operate I hope whatever you decide it will be the best decision for you, I wish you a very happy christmas and a healthy 2012 x

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