Were you aware that a SAH is a type of stroke?

[KelBel]

Hi Anne

I am sure I have read that vasospasm is a kind of stroke also, but there is some contradictory info on the net. I have just checked it on wikipedia and it says that "Vasospasm refers to a condition in which blood vessels spasm, leading to vasoconstriction. This can lead to tissue ischemia and death (necrosis). Cerebral vasospasm may arise in the context of subarachnoid hemorrhage. Symptomatic vasospasm or delayed cerebral ischemia is a major contributor to post-operative stroke and death especially after aneurysmal subarachnoid hemorrhage"

Sounds like it is not a stroke, but I am sure I have read something else that said it is...

I had a severe vasospasm during my op, in the middle cerebral artery region, which caused initial left-sided weakness. I still get pins & needles in my left hand, altho an MRi didn't show any problems.

kel x

[paul99]

hi Anne and kel

a vasospasm is caused by a chemical reaction to a sah where the blood vessels go into a spasm constricting blood vessels to the brain therefore starving the brain of oxygen for a brief time its like a shock everything clamps down the drug used to try and prevent the or reduce the effect of vasospasm is nimodipine given for a set period to reduce the effects post sah i hope this helps

[bogbrush]

Paul, I think most of us were given nimodipine, but my GP had no clue what it was for. He thought it was for the headaches and prescribed some more for me after the recommended 21 days. It took my own research to find out that I didn't actually need this drug any more. The vasospasm, from my own research occurs approximately between days 4 and 10. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[paul99]

no Keith

your not wrong its normally given for up to 21 days post sah to counter the effects of vasospasm which can be very damaging

it show's how little information is around even in the medical world ie gp's unless they have had a patient who has suffered and bothered to inform them selfs of the type of treatment their patients needs a very gray area i think more should be done

[maggie]

Hi, I was recently told by the hospital that some still say an SAH is a stroke but it isn't. Maybe it comes under the same umberella so to speak. They are researching more and more so I guess it's important to seperate . I was told at the time that I hadn't had a stroke but had an SAH. When I asked if I could have a flu jab my doc said I wasn't on the 'at risk list' cos I haven't had a stroke! Personally I felt better knowing that it was one or the other It made more sense somehow!

[Anne Fleming]

Hi Maggie

Yes I am not on the "at risk" category for the ordinary flu jab but I was for swine flu as I had a SAH. I went and got the swine flu jab though swine flu is another thing that's a bit of a mystery to me! It seems now that a lot of vaccination was bought for it but never used (here in Scotland at least).

Best wishes

Anne

[JayKay]

Paul, I think most of us were given nimodipine, but my GP had no clue what it was for. He thought it was for the headaches and prescribed some more for me after the recommended 21 days. It took my own research to find out that I didn't actually need this drug any more. The vasospasm, from my own research occurs approximately between days 4 and 10. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm not surprised the GP didn't know - they don't see many SAH in their career, apparently. The Neuro people give the Nimodipine as it is recognised as the treatment to avoid vasospasm.

Personally, I think if the Stroke Association can call SAH a "haemorrhagic stroke", then it must be a stroke!! Their literature says 80% of strokes are ischaemic and 20% haemorrhagic, so they definitely classify it as a stroke.

[Karen]

As far as I understand the word "stroke" means any disturbance to the brain and blood supply ..... such as haemorrhage or clot .... whether you have either a bleed (haemorrhagic stroke) or clot (ischemic stroke) which is what the majority of us associate with the word stroke, there will be a disturbance to the blood supply in the brain, causing a loss of brain function. Approximately 87% of strokes are Ischemic and the rest are Haemorrhagic. A Subarachnoid Haemorrhage comes under the category of a haemorrhagic stroke.

[perrycornish]

Sorry to come in on this discussion so late, I have not logged in,until yesterday, for ages for various reasons and I won't bore you with those! As I understand it an SAH is indeed a type of stroke, indeed a haemhorragic one. My own feelings are that people tend to expect you to conform to the 'person who has had a stroke pattern' and if you don't then they think that it was only a mild stroke, if there is such a thing I'm not sure that stroke and mild go together at all! For any of us who have had a 'mild stroke' it's a darned significant thing!

I tend to tell folk that I had a brain haemmorhage which produces shock, horror but not much understanding;-)

I asked Alison ( my partner) what she was told and she said that when I was admitted to the local A&E they told her it was a type of stroke, as they did not have adequate technology to be sure of a proper diagnosis. I was transferred that same day to Belfast's Royal Victoria Hospital where she was told I had an SAH, she then Googled it when she got home:) Where would we be without the net!

I didn't have vasospasm but did have seizures whilst in hospital, several I believe but I don't remember, for which I am grateful. I have, since I had the SAH had two TIA's the docs think because of the original SAH and the subsequent mini bleeds when I came uncoiled:oops: Since my re-coil I have had no more neuro symptoms although there is still a sign or three!

All my knowledge about this is from being told or doing research as I'm one of the one's with only fleeting memories of random bits of the eight weeks I was in hospital, but I do, like Karen, like to know what is going on and what caused things etc etc. My brain, my body, explain you medics;-)

Agree with the statements that ignorance in the community and in many cases the medical world is rife.

[jess]

Yes i knew it was it is a heomoragic stroke. Apparently the most deadliest type. Jess.

[paul99]

Karen i agree with both you and perry its just the different type of mechanism compared with a normal stroke

[Karen]

Well, it's interesting to see how many of you guy's .... like myself, who weren't told or didn't realise that a SAH was indeed a haemorrhagic stroke. Like all strokes, whether Ischemic or Haemorrhagic, they all vary as to their severity and that's something that we have experienced from the reports by members on this site.

The worrying thing for me is, that if we aren't given the information ourselves as survivors and are querying it on this site, then how on this earth, do we expect to raise awareness? .... I think that the FAST campaign is something that proves that haemorrhagic stroke is still something that is put on the back burner, as the percentage experiencing this, is well below those who experience an Ischemic stroke. I was contacted by a Reporter who was working on behalf of the Government for the FAST campaign and didn't realise herself, that a SAH was a type of stroke and surely, the people that are fronting these campaigns, should know and be given that information? ... I must admit, that I was staggered at the time and even though the FAST campaign has been a success, I wonder how much of a success it's been, in regards to haemorrhagic stroke .... or what we've experienced a SAH?

My frustration is, that not many of us are given the correct factual information .... I wasn't and I can see from the abysmal survival rates of SAH or haemorrhagic stroke that it's an area that really needs to be improved and awareness raised with both the public and medics to improve the survival rate. Technology has moved on with surgery and coiling, but we have to actually get into a hospital and have our symptoms recognised, before treatment can take place and in the vast majority of cases, this still seems to be missed and perhaps many of us, are now going through a much tougher recovery than necessary, because we weren't initially taken seriously .... I feel that for many of us, our prognosis is still unfortunately, in the lap of the Gods....

I am deviating from my original post and my main interest was from a psychological point, as to whether or not, knowing that you'd had a stroke in your early days of recovery would have been helpful or a hindrance to your own recovery?

However, I would also be interested to know, whether that knowledge would have helped you or not? From my own experience, I have discovered that if you tell somebody that you've had a brain haemorrhage which caused a stroke, they tend to be more understanding and normally can relate to a stroke, rather than the SAH itself ....

On the other hand, I'm not sure whether the knowledge of having a stroke, is a good thing or not, as in terms of recovery and positivity with recovery. I visit other stroke websites and found a comment the other day, that there weren't many positive postings .... and to be honest, there wasn't.

So, would you have found it a help or hinderance to your recovery, to have had that knowledge .... and to a degree, is ignorance bliss? ... We all perhaps have a stereotypical image of someone that has had a stroke .... I did, with my own Grandmother who sadly passed away after a stroke due to a blood clot and I'm not sure whether or not, the information would have helped me in my early months.... personally, I don't think that it would have helped and maybe would have been more of a burden in the first year or so ...

[paul99]

hi Karen

the quote said it all and there are many truths within the first three paragraphs and it did touch a nerve with me and im just someone who has to come to terms with the devastation it has caused to a loved one

a normal stoke can be dissolved these days and the atypical stroke is what is understood and can be managed whereas a sah is a different mecihnism and there is no treatment for it except the person it affects and there is no clot busting drug but its up to the persons determination to recover the level of damage is also very varied and the location of the bleed because its such a sudden event there is no remedy unless everyone has a ct scan or rva when they reach say 25 years of age then things like an anni could be picked up

im not sure that there is an answer to determine who is and isnt liable to sah

the drs i know just cant say how much a person will recover, its so complexed an issue but awareness of the signs and symptoms should be made big time in all casualties and a/e s countrywide

im sorry to go on but yes something should be done thinking cap on

[jess]

Hi like i said i knew it was a kind of stroke my mother didn't though and yes i think it helped to know the truth xxx

[Sandi K]

I found an 'oldy but a goody'! This is a great thread and worth bringing forward for all of us newer members.

I've said in a recent thread that my neurosurgeon very clearly said to me 'you did not have a stroke'. Those words confused me and I thought he meant 'what you had was not as bad as a stroke'. It wasn't until I joined this site and did some searching on the Internet that I realized the seriousness of my situation, how lucky I am to be alive, and that I had a type of stroke.

If I had been told I had a stroke in the beginning (I'm starting to cry as I write this so it's very emotional for me) I would have given myself a break from the beginning. I wouldn't have pushed so hard and so fast. I would have let up and allowed my body and brain to rest.

Yes Karen, psychologically it would have definitely made a difference for me. It would have helped my recovery, I wouldn't have tried going back to work only weeks afterward.

Sandi K.

[Nessie]

Hi Karen,

I was told in the emergency room that I had a stroke. The difference with a 'normal' one is that the bleed here doesn't flood into your brain, but between the membranes around it. Maybe that's a reason why our symptoms differ.... between these membranes the blood can do odd places, and the bleed or obstruction can cut off oxygyn for various parts of our brains.

It is easier to tell people that I had a stroke, 'cause it is easier for them to relate to.

People who know a bit more about these things I tell that it was a SAH. They all react the same: WHAAAAT?? 'cause the chance of surviving is a lot less (is that how you say it in English?) because in fact you have an arterial bleed in your head.

(one of my first patients when training to be a nurse ( in 1991) was a patient with SAH. He died after a few weeks. I didn't know the how and what then, but this man has been in my head since it happened to me..

So we have you to thank for setting up BTG?? (where can I send my sea of flowers???)

Wow. What a difference you have made for many people!!! #kudos!!!!

[JayKay]

Yes, Karen, KUDOS! And thank you

Like Nessie, everyone who knows about SAH is amazed at how well I'm doing. In France they have the expression "rupture d'anévrisme" and people know it's very often fatal, so my French friends were even more amazed at my progress lol.

[FionaH]

I was really interested to read this thread.

I couldn't work out whether I'd had a stroke from what I'd read and no one told me in hospital.

It does help in someways to know but it is quite scary somehow in another. I worked with the elderly for a long time when I was younger and I associate a lot of pain and difficulty with that word. Still at the end of the day I do think knowledge is power.

[Karen]

Hi Guy's,

A stroke is something that happens during an interruption of the blood supply to the brain ... either through a blockage/clot or a bleed from a blood vessel/artery. I still find that it's easier to tell people that I had a brain haemorrhage that caused me to have a stroke and they seem to have a greater understanding.

Nessie and Jen, thank you for your very kind words ... The site in it's early day, was a way for me to communicate and find support with others who were in the same position and who weren't offered a lot in the terms of post SAH recovery info and who like me, felt lost and abandoned. It's still great to see the strength and reassurance that BTG members pass on to our newbies and to older members that also need it. The vast majority of members, do have positive recovery outcomes, even if life is very different to life before the SAH.

However, I couldn't run the site, without help and I'm very grateful to my family that helped to build it, especially Chris, who is still involved with the technical side and to my fellow Admin buddy Keith and all of our Moderators who all help to make my life a little easier!

Stroke is only a medical word and doesn't define the person that we are post SAH .... all brain injury is different and has its own individual degree of severity, but unfortunately, we tend to associate it with elderly people, when in fact, babies, babies in the womb and children (even though rare) can also have a stroke.

Thanks for your comments. xx

[goldfish.girl]

Hi Karen,

I think that a thread you posted a long time ago is still so relevant and people are still not always aware of the stroke link all this time later!

I was raging in April 2010 when I discovered the word 'stroke' on my medical file - I ranted and raved that 'I did NOT have a stroke' - this was 21 months after SAH!!! I am ok with the word now but it was a horrible shock when I first saw it.......

Michelle x

[anneec]

Hello

I am glad you found this thread from last year, interesting.

I was never told I had had a stroke, nor have I seen it written down in any of my medical notes or doctors letters. ( I am a non-annie) and I tell folk I had a SAH. I feel that it is different, on the DVLA forms there is a special separate box to tick for SAH so they must class it differentlly.

Have a good weekend everyone and enjoy this lovely weather.

Anne

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[Karen]

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/publications/specialist-guides/medical-conditions/a-z-of-medical-conditions/stroke/classification-stroke.shtml

The above website may help to clarify the different types of stroke.

SAH is probably noted as a separate issue on the DVLA form as to other types of stroke, due to the brain surgery that may or not may be involved, such as coiling or clipping and allowing sufficient recovery time before driving.

[Tina60]

No-one ever mentioned stroke to me, just kept calling it a SAH. I had a followup hosptal appointment 8 months after my SAH. Because I'd read that SAH was a form of stroke I asked him and he was adamant that SAH wasn't a stroke! Not sure what to think now. I have a claim in with my insurance company for critical illness cover as stroke is one of the listed illnesses. Hope they don't contact my consultant as I'll never get it